Curse

SotiCoto · Oct 02, 2007, 12:23 PM // 12:23

Divine Favor, as far as I can tell, is the only primary attribute with an effect limited exclusively to skills of the primary class.

Mesmers can quicken any spell.
Elementalists have energy pool enough to fuel just about any skill they like.
Warriors Strength works with any weapon.
Necros get energy from Soul Reaping irrespective of skillbar.
Assassins still get energy from guaranteed critical skills of other classes (e.g. Wild Blow).
Ritualists bestow extra health benefits on summoned necro minions or nature spirits.
Dervishes get energy and health back from any enchantment.
Paragons gain energy from the use of Warrior shouts on team-mates.

Only Rangers even come close with their Expertise, but that works on Necromancer Touch Skills as well.

A Monk's Divine Favor only works on monk spells, when surely for continuity it should apply to any spell cast on an ally.

Div · Oct 02, 2007, 12:27 PM // 12:27

Game balance is much more important than something like continuity.

SotiCoto · Oct 02, 2007, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Balanced to what?
And how exactly would fixing Divine Favor this way do anything besides allowing monks to viably make use of secondary class spells?

Trevor · Oct 02, 2007, 02:44 PM // 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

Balanced to what?
And how exactly would fixing Divine Favor this way do anything besides allowing monks to viably make use of secondary class spells?

Healing off some mesmer or elementalist spell? That's just stupid.

glountz · Oct 02, 2007, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Buff Strenght, nerf SR and Charisma, DF is fine.

SotiCoto · Oct 02, 2007, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevor

Healing off some mesmer or elementalist spell? That's just stupid.

Not if it is a Monk casting it. Certainly no stupider than a monk healing with Smiting Prayers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

Buff Strenght, nerf SR and Charisma, DF is fine.

Warriors are fine as is, even if Strength is useless.
Soul Reaping has already been nerfed...

Charisma?
WTF is Charisma?

Faer · Oct 02, 2007, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

Charisma?
WTF is Charisma?

Forced meme is forced.

Yichi · Oct 02, 2007, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Please feel free to explain exactically what spells or skills that I'm bringing on my monk OTHER than monk spells/skills that I will be casting on my allies....

zknifeh · Oct 02, 2007, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Charisma:
Main Entry: cha·ris·ma
Function: noun
Etymology: Greek, favor, gift, from charizesthai to favor, from charis grace; akin to Greek chairein to rejoice -- more at YEARN
1 : a personal magic of leadership arousing special popular loyalty or enthusiasm for a public figure (as a political leader)
2 : a special magnetic charm or appeal <the charisma of a popular actor>

on the other hand... why would you even bother to "heal" someone from skills like.. I-hex? or something else that doesnt have much use?

glountz · Oct 02, 2007, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

Charisma?
WTF is Charisma?

Ooops bad english. I meant Leadership.

enxa · Oct 02, 2007, 03:40 PM // 15:40

It makes perfect sense. I cant think of a way this could be exploited by primary monks. so /signed

Cebe · Oct 02, 2007, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Being able to go Mo/Rt and use Divine Favor with Restoration Magic heals would make Monks the supreme beings of the entire Guild Wars universe ... imo.

With the exception of a few lines of magic, such as Restoration, there really is very little in the way of spells from other professions which can be cast on other players, meaning you wouldn't get much benefit from it anyway. But even to me, it would seem like Divine Favor + Restoration would be overpowered. At 12 Restoration and 14 Divine you could get a heal of 201. 201 health from a 5-energy non-elite spell with a condition which is easy to meet.

Antheus · Oct 02, 2007, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Ok, the original reasoning is fine. DF is "unique".

But why?

For party/normal gameplay builds, I have hard time putting things on monk bar that aren't monk related.

So to me that sounds like it would only contribute to some other, possibly problematic/gimmicky builds.

And even then, DF bonus isn't really that much.

I don't really see how this would make or break anything, but I simply cannot think of any reasonable use or benefit it would bring. Even in some duo farming builds.

zamial · Oct 02, 2007, 05:39 PM // 17:39

adding a bit of more healing would be fine by me.

/signed but not for weapon spells as they target a weapon not an ally.

Yichi · Oct 02, 2007, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by zamial

adding a bit of more healing would be fine by me.

/signed but not for weapon spells as they target a weapon not an ally.

[skill]Weapon of Warding[/skill]

Im pretty sure it does target an ally.... (used WoW as an example here)

FelixCarter · Oct 02, 2007, 06:02 PM // 18:02

People don't want to see Monks get buffed. Especially not after the SR nerf.

People want to see Divine Favor inhibited, not extended. I think Izzy even said somewhere on Wiki that Divine Favor and Smiting Prayers were going to be looked over again.

I'll give you a hint: make a Ritualist. After the community gets the nerf they want, Ritualists are going to be god-healers compared to their predecessors.

makosi · Oct 02, 2007, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Or Divine Favor can trigger on signets just like what mesmers got.

DF really sucks.

Antheus · Oct 02, 2007, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

That's the best general argument I heard against the suggestion. Mind you, we're playing with ideas here. I can't seriously think that A-net would consider such a change. It's not their style. In most cases, they nerf, and when that doesn't work, generally, they nerf some more. However, this certainly is a "nail in the coffin" for the vanilla idea. A primary monk would heal for more with, say, Mend Body And Soul @ DF 12 RM 12 than a ritualist would at RM 16. It would have to be changed.

Let's pretend that divine favor applies to all spells.

What would this killer Monk build be? Ok, so they can heal better than rits. And rangers are better touchers than necros.

But is DF really what's stopping someone from using /Rt for this purpose? I'm unfortunately not familiar with Rt healing side enough to make such a guess. But can you propose a full heal or prot build that would benefit so much from it that the change would be worth making?

Either PvP or PvE.

zamial · Oct 02, 2007, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

Let's pretend that divine favor applies to all spells.

What would this killer Monk build be? Ok, so they can heal better than rits. And rangers are better touchers than necros.

But is DF really what's stopping someone from using /Rt for this purpose? I'm unfortunately not familiar with Rt healing side enough to make such a guess. But can you propose a full heal or prot build that would benefit so much from it that the change would be worth making?

Either PvP or PvE.

Try a vengful 55/105 smiter. OOOPS!!!

Div · Oct 02, 2007, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

Let's pretend that divine favor applies to all spells.

What would this killer Monk build be?

It wouldn't make a killer monk to get divine favor off stuff like spirit light or mend body and soul, but it'll make it just strong enough to tip the balance. It's just the same as adding an extra 5-10 point heal to LoD. It wouldn't make a killer monk, but it'll make it a lot better than before.

As someone who's monked extensively, I'm pretty sure I know the monk mechanics pretty well to know that balance will be thrown off if you add DF to all spells that target an ally.